Comments on: DEA Drugs and Chemicals of Concern: Kratom http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/uppers/23/ Addiction and Drug Education Blogs and Podcasts, looking at drug use trends and treatment, and how addiction is tied to the brain as well as the body Wed, 03 Feb 2010 17:46:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: yurps http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/uppers/23/comment-page-1/#comment-1246 yurps Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:20:58 +0000 http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/drug-information/23/#comment-1246 I am going thru the same as this blog posts describes. I have tried most drugs and that includes various opioids. I nearly got put into jail so I started looking for legal highs, at first this was alcohol, but the hangover was so terrible. So I found GHB better until it was made illegal where I live in 2003, then I used phenibut, I sort of got addicted to each of these but stopping came down to not sleeping but not physical discomfort. Then I found Kratom, at first I thought it was a miracle too, and to be honest I went a long time using it without much problem. At first only once a week, then a few times a week, but soon once a night. Even at once a night, when I ran out it was one bad night usually, and I would have some hard liquor and codeine/iboprophen tablets to get thru. Next day I would go to a float tank and get some excercise, at that point I would have mild withdrawal and an alcohol hangover. However then I lost my job during the financial crash and I was at my house during the day, somehow my job gave me structure, got me going in the morning and kept me off the kratom. The job was also alot of stress, and partially the reason I started taking Kratom in the evenings to relax after the day. Anyhow being around the house all day meant I started taking Kratom more often, even first thing upon waking up with coffee. This continued, now when I run out I get very anxious and the full range of symptoms discribed by traditional withdrawals from opioids. I am considering Suboxone, however I don't know if the addiction specialist will know much about Kratom, and any specifics on switching from Kratom to Suboxone. They say wait an 24 hours for heroin addicts, but I think Kratom might even have a shorter half-life than heroin so perhaps it is ok to switch to Suboxone after even a shorter period. I have yet to try Suboxone but it seems like it is easier to taper than Kratom. I have successfully tapered down on Kratom myself, but it was up to my own discipline and it was hard when you have a large stash to resist the urge not to use more and get a high, especially if you have a bad day or something. With Suboxone you don't get high, you just don' t have the w/d's. I hope my specialist will listen to me about this Kratom, if they don't accept it I will have to lie and say I am addicted to codeine or hydrocodone so I can get the treatment, this is part of the problem with being addicted to a legal drug. So I have to find what a equivilent dose of hydrocodone or vicodin compared to Kratom. Anyhow glad I found this webpage, will print it and bring it with me to the specialist. I am going thru the same as this blog posts describes. I have tried most drugs and that includes various opioids. I nearly got put into jail so I started looking for legal highs, at first this was alcohol, but the hangover was so terrible. So I found GHB better until it was made illegal where I live in 2003, then I used phenibut, I sort of got addicted to each of these but stopping came down to not sleeping but not physical discomfort. Then I found Kratom, at first I thought it was a miracle too, and to be honest I went a long time using it without much problem. At first only once a week, then a few times a week, but soon once a night. Even at once a night, when I ran out it was one bad night usually, and I would have some hard liquor and codeine/iboprophen tablets to get thru. Next day I would go to a float tank and get some excercise, at that point I would have mild withdrawal and an alcohol hangover. However then I lost my job during the financial crash and I was at my house during the day, somehow my job gave me structure, got me going in the morning and kept me off the kratom. The job was also alot of stress, and partially the reason I started taking Kratom in the evenings to relax after the day. Anyhow being around the house all day meant I started taking Kratom more often, even first thing upon waking up with coffee. This continued, now when I run out I get very anxious and the full range of symptoms discribed by traditional withdrawals from opioids. I am considering Suboxone, however I don’t know if the addiction specialist will know much about Kratom, and any specifics on switching from Kratom to Suboxone. They say wait an 24 hours for heroin addicts, but I think Kratom might even have a shorter half-life than heroin so perhaps it is ok to switch to Suboxone after even a shorter period. I have yet to try Suboxone but it seems like it is easier to taper than Kratom. I have successfully tapered down on Kratom myself, but it was up to my own discipline and it was hard when you have a large stash to resist the urge not to use more and get a high, especially if you have a bad day or something. With Suboxone you don’t get high, you just don’ t have the w/d’s. I hope my specialist will listen to me about this Kratom, if they don’t accept it I will have to lie and say I am addicted to codeine or hydrocodone so I can get the treatment, this is part of the problem with being addicted to a legal drug. So I have to find what a equivilent dose of hydrocodone or vicodin compared to Kratom. Anyhow glad I found this webpage, will print it and bring it with me to the specialist.

]]> By: an_apple_a_day http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/uppers/23/comment-page-1/#comment-723 an_apple_a_day Thu, 05 Feb 2009 02:17:39 +0000 http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/drug-information/23/#comment-723 Congrats on being sober. I use kratom for different reasons... pain management. I have arthritis and not only does kratom help with the pain, it seems to manage the atacks. I'll be very miffed in the DEA bans kratom and I cant buy it anymore. I've done a lot of research into becoming addicted to Kratom and from what I've read, it's rare and you dont have trouble quiting you just get some mile withdrawl symptoms... nothing too bad. Here are some good sites I've found: http://kratom-world.com/ http://kratom.nl/en/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom Congrats on being sober.

I use kratom for different reasons… pain management. I have arthritis and not only does kratom help with the pain, it seems to manage the atacks. I’ll be very miffed in the DEA bans kratom and I cant buy it anymore.

I’ve done a lot of research into becoming addicted to Kratom and from what I’ve read, it’s rare and you dont have trouble quiting you just get some mile withdrawl symptoms… nothing too bad.

Here are some good sites I’ve found:

http://kratom-world.com/
http://kratom.nl/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kratom

]]> By: Rane http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/uppers/23/comment-page-1/#comment-685 Rane Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:29:28 +0000 http://www.cnsproductions.com/drugeducationblog/drug-information/23/#comment-685 As a decade long opiate addict, now "sober" on Suboxone for 6 months I am happy to say I have undergone a complete paradigm shift and want to be sober for real, as in no suboxone. Kratom has been a lifesaver to make that transition. You are probably aware of not only the severity of opiate withdrawal but with drugs like Methadone (which I once spent 2 months dope sick when I stopped) and Suboxone, they are so difficult to come off. The extreme length of time is what was killing me. So thanks to Kratom it has eased the transition. Heroin and the like, you are better after 7 days tops, but when it comes to the longer acting ones, coming off is PAIN and FRUSTRATION like nothing else. Suboxone may have been a miracle drug for me when I needed it but then it became harmful (basically your personality is operating at 25% of who you really are). I felt that I was unable to grow as a person, that it was holding me back. I am glad I went off of it. I am 10 days off Suboxone, after a rapid decrease (32mg>16>8>4>2>0 over a 3 month period) and when it gets unbearable I have a cup of kratom tea. Every day I feel better and I am sure that a week from now I wont need any tea. Consumers should not always have to rely on modern addiction medicine - which is obviously failing us. My doc says "this is what we got" but that is unacceptable. We, the people that are effected, need to be able to find our own solutions when our docs cannot. About the guy using bup to get off Kratom- it's a catch 22. i am essentially doing the exact opposite. But it wont matter what any individual or institution does if there is not a huge paradigm shift in the medical community and with personal responsibility. So my point in writing this diatribe is that I no longer want to visit the "sickness industry" and I hope this substance that I found helpful will not become restricted to people that need it. Personal responsibility is the answer folks. AA wont help you, leaving people places and things wont help you; only you, your thoughts, words, and actions will help you. Please do post what happens with the guy using Bup to get off Kratom. And, if you are able, whether he goes on maintenance or just uses bup for detox. As a decade long opiate addict, now “sober” on Suboxone for 6 months I am happy to say I have undergone a complete paradigm shift and want to be sober for real, as in no suboxone.

Kratom has been a lifesaver to make that transition.

You are probably aware of not only the severity of opiate withdrawal but with drugs like Methadone (which I once spent 2 months dope sick when I stopped) and Suboxone, they are so difficult to come off.

The extreme length of time is what was killing me. So thanks to Kratom it has eased the transition. Heroin and the like, you are better after 7 days tops, but when it comes to the longer acting ones, coming off is PAIN and FRUSTRATION like nothing else.

Suboxone may have been a miracle drug for me when I needed it but then it became harmful (basically your personality is operating at 25% of who you really are). I felt that I was unable to grow as a person, that it was holding me back. I am glad I went off of it.

I am 10 days off Suboxone, after a rapid decrease (32mg>16>8>4>2>0 over a 3 month period) and when it gets unbearable I have a cup of kratom tea. Every day I feel better and I am sure that a week from now I wont need any tea.

Consumers should not always have to rely on modern addiction medicine – which is obviously failing us. My doc says “this is what we got” but that is unacceptable. We, the people that are effected, need to be able to find our own solutions when our docs cannot.

About the guy using bup to get off Kratom- it’s a catch 22. i am essentially doing the exact opposite. But it wont matter what any individual or institution does if there is not a huge paradigm shift in the medical community and with personal responsibility.

So my point in writing this diatribe is that I no longer want to visit the “sickness industry” and I hope this substance that I found helpful will not become restricted to people that need it.

Personal responsibility is the answer folks. AA wont help you, leaving people places and things wont help you; only you, your thoughts, words, and actions will help you.

Please do post what happens with the guy using Bup to get off Kratom. And, if you are able, whether he goes on maintenance or just uses bup for detox.

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