Archive for the ‘Marijuana’ Category

MCAT, prescription drug abuse leading to heroin, and more about pot

Friday, April 9th, 2010

A look at mephedrone or MCAT -  a  synthetic verson of the eastern African khat plant – is  a strong stimulant, with reports coming from UK, where it has become very popular, of  serious overdose issues.   Prescription drugs misuse and abuse continues as an escalating problem especially among young people – and the increased possibility of addiction to opiod pain medication leading to heroin use — made more pronounced by the flooding of the market with high potency and low cost heroin coming in from Mexico and Afghanistan. Also more on the implications of legalizing marijuana.

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Transcript (edited):

CNS:   Hi and welcome once again to the CNS Addiction Podcast.  I am Howard LaMere with Dr. Darryl Inaba.  Looking at the recent news of addiction, drug use and dependency, I see a lot of stories about things we’ve talked about recently, like the addicting qualities of eating, especially high fat/high flavor items like bacon, chocolate, potato chips and desserts, a big story just came out in Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=addicted-to-fat-eating) about that.  Also the continuing story on legalizing marijuana in California where the question will be on the ballot – what will that mean to the people using it medicinally, the people growing it and the government.  If it passes in California, it’s still going against federal law. We’ll have to wait to see what happens. Let’s talk more about prescription drugs and some of the substances that are being abused and causing serious illnesses.  There are some stories about a sharp upturn in the last few years especially among adolescences in the use of pharmaceuticals and what that leads to. Kids start on the OxyContin from their parent’s drug cabinet and because it is such an expensive drug, they end up substituting heroin. The other interesting item out of the UK is this new craze going on with something called MCAT.

DARRYL:      It is mephedrome and it’s been around for awhile. It is related to khat which East Africans have chewed for generations, maybe up to 1000 years. The shrub produces leaves which must be picked fresh because the (drug substance) cathinone is destroyed by the environment within 24 hours.  So because it was found Africa and the leaves needed to be fresh – it has never been a big item here. But what happened in the United States in the early 90’s was the development of a synthetic version called “methcathinone” by putting a metho group on it, a CH3 group on the apparent compound cathinone, it became more stable in the environmental and it could be sold off as a pill or powder.

CNS:   Is it just as strong?

DARRYL:      Yes, they claim it was just as strong.  Pharmacologists say it wasn’t as strong, but what we’re seeing now in Europe is a number of deaths related to its (methcathione) use.  We don’t see many deaths associated with methamphetamine abuse, so it must be that the methcath is much stronger than even methamphetamine.  But it’s growing there (in Europe) and its potential for abuse here stems from the fact that there are no laws that prohibit methcathinone.  So, like many other new drugs, it’s finding its way on the internet and you can buy it. I’ve also heard of people in this country gaining access on the internet to fresh cut khat leaves, and have heard that the chemical properties really don’t get destroyed within 24 hours, so it can be cut and shipped and people can get high.  On a personal note – Amnesty International contacted me once and asked me to detoxify a person from Somalia who was trying to come into the United States to be with his family, but he was a known khat addict so the US wouldn’t let him in.  I said,” Sure we can detoxify him.”   We detoxify methamphetamine users so we had it all set up and I never heard from the guy.  He never showed up for treatment.  About 5 years later he gets busted for growing khat trees in Monterey!  So there might be some local crop available on the west coast. Khat is definitely an upper and mephedrome or MCAT or whatever they want to call it – synthetic cathinone – looks like it’s going to be another drug that’s is now on the DEA’s radar to classify very soon.

CNS:   I think the UK is talking about taking action immediately because it is   apparently being sold as a plant fertilizer.

DARRYL:      So is synthetic marijuana which is now causing a lot of problems and sold as incense as well.  And I remember isobutyl nitrite – Russian locker room – sold as a room deodorizer, and sometimes it is sold as shoe polish.  You know….as long as you don’t call it a food, drug or cosmetic, you don’t come in violation of any drug laws for testing or anything and you can market it for what you’re using, but what happens if it gets abused strongly?  Then the government has to look at it a different way and maybe reclassify it.

CNS:   Is there anything else we can say to expand on pharming – the off-label use of pharmaceuticals that is becoming an ever increasing phenomenon, especially amongst young people.

DARRYL:      Well we’ve been watching that develop for a long time in our area.   Over the last 3 years there have been conferences and reports and such indicating an incredible increase in the abuse of diverted prescription drugs, by adolescences They get them from the internet or by raiding their parents and grandparents medicine cabinets, and more often when young kids go to dinner with their parents to their neighbor’s or their parents friend’s home they rush into the bathrooms to see what they’ve got and take everything that’s available.  There was a recent bust I believe in Oregon, where millions of dollars worth of pharmaceuticals were stolen.  The thieves busted in like a major sophisticated theft operation, like a sting….like a diamond or art theft …they broke in from the ceiling, cutting through and lowered  themselves down with these special belts and stuff and hauled off something like 73 million dollars worth of pharmaceuticals.

More kids are taking prescription drugs and diverting prescription drugs than are abusing marijuana, cocaine, heroin and a lot of other drugs.  Actually right now, the statistics show that prescription drugs are being abused by 20% of the teen population in the United States and probably a little bit higher here in Oregon because Oregon ranks towards the top.  I have noticed that during the last 5 years or so, a 500 or 600% increase in abuse among teenagers than in the previous era.  And between 1995 and 2004, there was a 3000% increase in abuse of prescription drugs.  OxyContin, Vicodin – those are still the preferred drugs The sad part about that is that once people get addicted to opiates, their thirst and their tolerance for opiates grows exponentially.  OxyContin is expensive on the street, selling for like 50 dollars a pill.  And the heroin  glut that’s on the market from Afghanistan, Mexico, South America, Golden Triangle, Southwest Crescent, the golden crescent – all those areas have now actually decreased the price of heroin to like 5 dollars a bag. A nickel bag or a nickel paper was last heard of during the early 1960’s.  So heroin with costing 5 dollars a nickel bag and OxyContin costing 50 dollars a pill, it becomes very attractive for prescription drug abusers to turn their attentions to heroin, and once they turn their attention to heroin, the number of users who use intravenously is so much higher than with other drugs.  We are seeing another epidemic of intravenous drug abuse and intravenous heroin abuse because of the way prescription drugs are being diverted.

CNS:   And all the complications that leads to – hepatitis and potentially HIV.   I know you’re not an economist, but if we legalize marijuana, what will be the fate of all those who have illegally made so much money through the years …it’s not like these people are just going to go straight.  They’re going to find something else to sell under the radar. We’re seeing that in California, there is a lot of violence associated with small towns, small operation growers bumping up against people stealing from them, or feeling competition from the major drug smugglers.

DARRYL:      Well, the political climate has changed towards legalizing marijuana.  Not just for medical purposes, but just to legalize it overall.  I think in the 1990’s, in California, only 22% of the polled voters favored legalizing marijuana.  In the year 2006 or so, you are looking at 46% and current polls are saying that 56…or over half the voters now favor legalizing marijuana.  Not for social or health reasons but purely because of the economic factor involved.  Governor Brown…Willy Brown, San Francisco mayor, California governor…writes an op-ed column in the San Francisco Chronicle and he wrote, “truth be told, there’s just too much money to be made both by the people who grow marijuana in the cities and counties that would like to tax it, not to vote for it.”  So that whole scene has changed where even Governor Schwarzenegger is saying we need to look at this, we need to look at the potential revenue.  There is a 9 block area in Oakland, California called “Oaksterdam” and a guy – Richard Lee is making millions of dollars through several pot shops set up already where you can get weed to smoke a lot faster than you can get a cup of coffee. People like him are going to be in the forefront of financing the lobby to get marijuana legalized.  This is too lucrative a thing to pass up and what I don’t understand is why nobody is looking at the long-term costs.  You know the short term gains are going to be huge.  You know people are going to jump on the bandwagon.  They will probably tax the paraphernalia, the names, everything about it. Nicotine….caffeine, heroin, cocaine – they all generate money.  People are just going to do whatever they can to get the money necessary to continue accessing these things.  But in the long run, what about the traffic accidents?  We know marijuana can cause traffic accidents.  What about the health issues?  We know it causes airway disease.  Maybe not as much cancer as does nicotine but certainly emphysema and a lot of airway diseases that come about from it.  All of these costs are not being looked at.  The fact is….it’s the general public will be voting on this – not the experts – and the general public seems to be of the mind to make marijuana legal.  It’s a threat, I think, to recovering people.  There are people who recognize that they are addicted to marijuana and are struggling to stay clean.  If it becomes legal, it will make it a lot harder because people will be smoking it wherever, and those in recovery will smell it and perhaps make them crave it.  Marijuana is one of those psychoactive drugs that operate in the same place in the brain where fat operates and as we predicted a long time ago – does the same thing to a brain as does cocaine, heroin and other drugs. If people who are vulnerable to addiction, or are in recovery use it – it can lead them to relapse by creating a craving for the drug that they most want and prefer.

CNS:   As is often the case throughout human history, we tend to act on the basis of short-term gains and don’t consider the long-term picture.  To our listeners – if you have comments or questions, send us an email.

 
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Re-evaluating drug laws-taxing, treatment and communities

Wednesday, January 13th, 2010

The California State Assembly’s public safety committee approved a bill Tuesday Jan 12 to tax and regulate marijuana in a manner similar to alcohol, proposing to add potentially one billion dollars to California’s deficit-wracked budget. Colorado is consider similar measures, and New Jersey just became the 14th state to allow medical use of marijuana. We look at the long history of governments using addictions, whether substances or processes, such as gambling, as revenue sources … and also issues of treatment, or lack thereof, when  of these things become problems… and also an innovative organization in South Dakota working to create a grassroots, community effort to pick up where traditional treatment leaves off.

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Transcript (edited):

CNS: Darryl, there are interesting things in the news this week – we have the California legislature about to debate legalizing and taxing marijuana, and a story out of Maryland about the need for a new commission similar to the one we had at the end of Prohibition, looking at the way we deal with our drug laws; also an interesting story out of South Dakota about a new community organization looking at dependency issues as a long-term illness. These things seem related.

DARRYL: The first two are related, I am not sure about one in Sioux Falls, S.D. California, Colorado, and eleven or twelve other states have been moving to legalize, or decriminalize marijuana for some time now. There are huge movements or initiatives, which got momentum from the medical issue of marijuana and now the economic issue. I think basically what’s leading the thing along now is the great potential revenue source it represents for the states.

CNS: Which is of course historically true of alcohol and other drugs.

DARRYL:  Any addictive substance, whether it’s a mild substance like nicotine or tobacco, or a strong substance like heroin, that is capable of inducing substance-dependency is always going to be profitable. If you think marijuana will become legal soon so it can be taxed -  you might to invest in something small like maybe patenting a name, like Maui-Wowie, or some kind of packaging, or some kind of thing that goes along with marijuana because if it becomes a legal and tax issue, it represents a huge source of revenue. Research indicates that 10 or 20% of those who consume alcohol, consume 80% of all alcohol sold. The individuals who use these substances consume huge amounts and ultimately pay a penalty in terms of taxation which supports the rest of society. I have no illusion that the money will go towards treatment. Here in Oregon, the voters approved gambling, which is a huge addiction, the citizens agreed to legalize it with the proviso that about 5% or 10% of the money would be reserved for treatment of gambling addiction. But when the (economic) downturn happened, the legislature and the people in power didn’t give a darn what the people voted for, they stripped the money for gambling treatment down to 1%, and diverted the other revenues toward supporting the  infrastructure and political machinery that seems to be running our country at this time.

CNS: Even though it was written into the law, they just decided to modify it.

DARRYL:  Yes, I don’t know how that works, but they do it all the time. When governments declare a state of emergency, they do anything they want, state militia and all that, so I guess the executive and legislative powers can decide what they want to do about anything.

But marijuana is moving rapidly toward taxation, or legalization, or medical use.   I think the California legislature is looking at that now, talking about $50 per ounce as the proposed tax, which they say is only one dollar per joint, but that’s a pretty thin joint.

CNS:  But if you’re talking about high THC, sinsemilla, or what have you, that’s probably close.

DARRYL:   It depends on the user’s tolerance, because you do get tolerance to marijuana, it depends on the social environment where it is used. In Oregon and California where medical marijuana is legal, there are problems in  high schools and with our kids. For example, Ashland, Oregon’s high school is voted one of the top ten in the US and the issue there won’t be students having a medical marijuana card, but the fact that students can’t smoke on campus or  be in possession of it. So what happens if a student pulls out the card and says “I need it for medical purposes”? It is legal and could present an interesting case.

CNS:  I’m sure it will show up. But back to gambling, there was another story recently from Pennsylvania, talking about the amount of revenue that the states are realizing from the legalization of gambling, and their responsibility that to address the addictive qualities.

DARRYL:  Gambling is probably one of the most powerful addictions I have seen, it’s a process addiction, like shopping or hoarding, or internet gaming. It has a powerful impact in the most devastating ways. Working in a state that legalized gambling I see individuals who have completely lost  relationships, lost their freedom, lost their cars, their jobs, their self-esteem, ultimately their soul and their life. Gambling seems to be even more devastating than alcoholic or heroin addiction. It happens very quick and they have almost no control over their obsession with winning. Its hard for me to understand because I’m a normie when it comes to gambling. I hate to lose and I believe the machines that are legal here, the poker machines, the lottery machines, are adjusted to pay out only so much.

CNS:  They’re all programmed … it’s not like a poker game with your buddies.

DARRYL:  The electronic slots are programmed to come up near-misses a lot, …almost the three cherries … one little scoot, or three on the diagonal, and it just continues to draw you in more, and people get totally obsessed with it.

CNS:  So that’s a psychological manipulation, that’s mean and nasty.

DARRYL:  It is even worse than drug addiction where the drug just does it for itself. People smoke, people use heroin and the drug does it on its own. Here we have a whole industry trying to suck you in with all kinds of advertising, branding gimmicks and all kinds of other things. Certainly these are issues that have not been thoroughly looked at; for whatever reason. The biggest problem we have with drug addiction, marijuana, and gambling, is the horrible lack of services. You can legalize anything if there was a huge increase (in funding), and offer treatment on demand. Any time a person with these problems can come forward and enter a very rigorous and very good treatment program. That kind of treatment access would make legalization more acceptable. A society that continues to put few resources toward treatment and a lot of money toward the revenue side doesn’t seem like a fair way to go.

CNS:  We are seeing greater usage of the drug courts, also more drug education, substance abuse, relapse and recovery and training in the prison environment. It’s still not enough but maybe increasing a little bit.

DARRYL:     It’s wonderful, but I have no illusions.  I’m a supporter of drug courts and I think they really work. There is evidence across the country that it is much better than the alternative of just locking people up, and saying stay away from drugs.

CNS:  As if you couldn’t get drugs in prison anyway …

DARRYL:  We spend so much money on our court system and incarcerating people – providing custodial care of people, and coerced treatment seems to be successful in that it saves our court and prison system so much money. A  proposition addressing this was passed in California and resulted in closing two prisons. It was the first time California didn’t build more prisons than educational institutions. That was great, but then the prison union and a lot of people protested because of job loss. Now there is a move to open more prisons. ,

This  article from Sioux City ties into that somewhat. There is a community learning what is evidence-based in terms of treatment and also in terms of NIDAs approach to treatment. It is community-based treatment, structured towards community involvement on all levels that promotes the best outcomes. So Sioux City is recognizing now, and I hope all communities recognize, that addiction is a chronic, persistent medical disorder, its an anomaly, a difference in people’s brain, and it affects the most wonderful of all our citizens. So the community – rather than supporting incarcerating, criminalizing, and treating a person as a pariah…. as evil, the community embraces them as someone who might have diabetes or hypertension or asthma, and then provides a community -based intervention, where all parts of the community support that idea, where even the parent of addict says “my son has an illness,” rather than “he’s always been a bad kid”. That goes a long way and I hope the rest of the country does that more and more instead of merely looking at ways to make money legally off of marijuana. And that unfortunately, seems to be where California and other states are going.

CNS:  Budget issues, recession issues have had an effect on government services, and as often happens, caused the removal of services that are perhaps the most needed. It is a balancing act — do we need police, or firemen more — it’s a difficult choice. But in terms of issues related to addiction, it continues to be under funded. Are we seeing some movement? Some progress? Or is it still really slow?

DARRYL:  I think it is still slow. The latest University of Maryland notes on addiction show that, of the people who need, and want treatment for their addictive condition or substance use disorder, only one out of 29 or so are able to access treatment in any given year. That number has been about the same for many decades. We still have this huge treatment gap in which we are unable to provide enough treatment for those who want it even though treatment has been shown to be so effective in every study ever done. The meta study at the University of Pennsylvania 2005 showed that every treatment study, and they looked at over a thousand, had a positive economic outcome and actually saved society money. Treatment is effective, it compares well with treatment of any other chronic, persistent disorder like diabetes, asthma, hypertension. Now that the Mental Health Parity Act is in effect I have seen some institutions start to either contract out or look at providing more drug abuse treatment. Now that you can’t discriminate against addicts maybe we’ll see some change. We are still amuck in a horrible lack of treatment for people who want it and need it.

CNS:  Hopefully it will move forward, and we won’t reverse the trend again, even with our economic difficulties. And we have yet to see how that’s going to be addressed in the health care reform legislation. Thanks Darryl.

 
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Increased use of Marijuana by teenagers reported

Tuesday, December 22nd, 2009

Dr Lloyd Johnson of the University of Michigan Institute for Social Research, has been studying drug use by adolescents for over three decades. In a new report, he finds that use of marijuana by teenagers has increased in the last study period.  Dr Inaba comments on the findings and some of the implications in this weeks podcast.

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Transcript (edited):

CNS: Hi and welcome once again to the CNS pod cast, I’m Howard LaMere here with Dr. Darryl Inaba and Darryl what’s in the news this week?

Darryl: Well, Dr Lloyd Johnston from the University of Michigan has just released the latest study on drug abuse among US high school students. He’s been doing this study for well over forty years and he calls it “Predicting the Future”. It’s probably one of the best indicators of where things are going with drugs and youth in this country and it foretells the future of adult use.  Although some criticize his study, he’s a lifetime researcher performing the same study using the same methodology. He gathers reports from massive numbers of high school age youth through out the country so his study has become a reliable source of where things stand as to youth and drugs. The study released in December (2009) shows a sudden change in young people’s perception of the risk involved in smoking marijuana.  Anytime there’s a perception that a substance or drug is riskier by that population there’s a decrease in its abuse patterns or use. If there is a decrease in perceived risk of use, there is a natural increase in abuse. We’re seeing a change in perception now created by a growing trend of legalized pot in the form of medical marijuana. Young people are naturally going to perceive it as less dangerous if it is being distributed as medicine. But obviously that is misleading.

CNS: Right. Law enforcement at every level is looking very closely at this issue because the numbers don’t match up. There are significantly more people with marijuana cards and growing certificates than there are people with diagnosed conditions.

Darryl: And the sales outlets are mushrooming. There are people are growing more of it – much more than they can smoke in a year so they’re growing it for other populations. Another scary trend is the number of doctors prescribing “medical marijuana” to teen-agers for a variety of conditions including attention deficient disorder and autism where it seems to have a positive affect. There are reports that marijuana does help some kids with autism to control head banging and similar behaviors. We need medical marijuana but it should be administered in ways other than rolled up in a joint and smoked.

CNS: We need a different delivery mechanism.

Darryl: We need delivery mechanisms that don’t harm the lungs. We need to aim towards administering medicine in its purest, least dangerous form.

CNS: I was reading something recently about the dopamine system in adolescents not being well developed and that is part of the reason cigarettes are so compelling and so easily addictive in teens. That is problematic with prescribing marijuana.

Darryl: It’s also problematic for a future addiction and one of the main reasons why the greatest predictor of future problems with drugs and alcohol is age of first use.  We find that anything that brings about an imbalance of dopamine in the system seems to affect the connective tissue.  This network of fibers connects the pre-frontal cortex to the mesocortex or the limbic system. This is the “go” area or the compulsive area in the brain. The connective tissue that allows those two areas to communicate is called the Fascicules Retroflexus.  An imbalance of dopamine especially at an early age erodes those fibers. The first cigarette you smoke creates enough of an imbalance in dopamine to begin killing the connective tissue between your brain’s control center and its compulsive center. The more you smoke, the more those “communication” fibers are destroyed causing the stop or go switch to malfunction. Continued use causes a person to lose the ability to control their use of a substance that activates the go area of the brain because the brain gets stuck on “go” – there is no shut off, no stop – no awareness of the consequences of the inability to engage the stop switch.  This is an indicator of the potential for future addiction.  The younger a person uses substances that activate dopamine in those areas the more likely they’re going to have problems if prescribed marijuana.

CNS: So it’s not just that particular drug but, but any addiction or any compulsive behavior.

Darryl: Absolutely. If you’re going to affect that area in the brain in a negative way you’re setting yourself up not only for drug problems but also for other behavioral disorders, gambling, internet sex, shopping, and things like that.

CNS: One of the positive things to come out of that study seems to be the correlation between the increased use of marijuana or increased perception of it, and the decrease in smoking tobacco and alcohol use.

Darryl: Yes, but I don’t know if you can actually correlate the two. While there is a decreased perception of marijuana as a problem or risky substance – which as we mentioned leads to an increase in use, there is an increased perception that methamphetamine, nicotine, and alcohol are much more risky. However, if we look at prescription drugs like Vicodin, Oxycontin, Adderol, we see an increase in the abuse of those drugs. This might support the assumption that if we promote something for medical use, as we do with prescription drugs and medical marijuana there will be a decreased perception that there is any consequential risk.

CNS: We spoke before about teens and young adult taking things out of their medicine cabinet, or those of their parents, and mixing them together in a big bowl at a party – that’s pretty scary.

Darryl: Kids have pharming parties where they bring all these drugs and they just share them with out any thought to what they’re used for or how they’re used, just to see what the buzz is going to be.

CNS: Considering the fact that a lot of those medicines are extremely potent and have profound effects on the body, it is a dangerous way to get a buzz.

Darryl: One thing medical marijuana people are going to have to come to terms with is the fact that medical marijuana is not going to be weaker than street marijuana it’s probably going to be stronger because it will be purified. Medical marijuana gives us hope that there’s going to be a more rational approach to medicine but it also means that it will be more potent than street pot.

Your comments and questions are welcome as are your own personal experiences. If you would like to share, drop us an email at info@cnsproductions.com or log in to the forum and post your comment.

 
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Medical Marijuana again in the news

Thursday, October 22nd, 2009

The US Attorney General’s office recently released new guidelines saying the Federal Government will not pursue users and suppliers of medical marijuana under federal law, essentially turning over enforcement of medical marijuana laws to the states that have enacted them. Addiction Radio discusses some aspects.

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Transcript:

CNS: Hi and welcome once again to the CNS addiction radio podcast. I’m Howard LaMere here with Dr. Darryl Inaba. Darryl in the news today, this week a lot of marijuana, medical marijuana – a new policy statement from the Attorney Generals Office and also some kind of advance warning to the medical marijuana suppliers in Los Angeles city and county. What do you make of all this?

Darryl: Well, first of all Howard, it is a major shift and a dramatic one from the Federal Government, from the Obama administration, the Justice Department, and then there was a letter from the David Ogden, the Deputy Attorney General, clarifying that the US government and the federal prosecution will no longer be going after medical marijuana providers and users in those states which allow or have medical marijuana as a legal situation, as long as the people who are involved with it are in compliance, full compliance, with the state laws. And that’s a remarkable change because prior to now, the federal government was saying each state can do what ever they want to and enact what ever they wanted to but it’s the Federal Supremacy Act and, and federally marijuana was illegal so it didn’t matter what the states want to say, the federal government would come in and prosecute. Now they’re saying no, we’ll leave it up to the states, to do  their own, make their own laws and prosecutions about marijuana and where it is legal in those states, we’re not going to intervene and come in, so that in itself is remarkable and that makes a major change; as well as it’s a statement by the federal government saying that there is viable evidence, there is enough proof that in certain circumstances, in certain medical conditions – pain, nausea, maybe glaucoma – marijuana does seem to have some beneficial affects. I still feel that it’s not the smoking marijuana, it’s actually the chemicals in marijuana, THC; that we need to have a much healthier way of providing it, then just by people rolling up weed and smoking it. In Oregon, the physicians I talk to who are promoting or prescribing, if you are or however you say you’re going to do it, suggesting medical marijuana to your patients are wisely suggesting that they not smoke it but that they actually bake it in cookies and in brownies and in substances like that and eat it so that they won’t expose their lungs to the harmful effects of the tars and the other chemicals that can hurt your lungs.

CNS: Right, same, same kind of dangers of smoking cigarettes and actually I’ve been experimenting with vaporizing tobacco here myself personally to grapple with my tobacco addiction, and a lot of people mention that as a possible alternative also.

Darryl: I think that’s long over due where they not a smoke marijuana but they extract the chemicals in it, provide it in different forms and of course the major objection by many medical marijuana advocates to Marinol and other synthetic marijuana, is that the onset is so much slower if you take a tablet or even if you inject so I think somebody should come up with a more pure, cleaner anatomizer just like somebody with asthma, who has an asthma vaporizer can just inhale that and get the immediate results and get cleaner results and more reliable results than smoking a combination of four hundred and twenty different chemicals, sixty of which are psychoactive when you smoke marijuana. The other thing that you mentioned though Howard is kind of interesting also, and that’s what the marijuana, medical marijuana advocates have always told me, was the real problem they saw in getting their product to be legalized for medical purposes, that the enemy or the pro-marijuana people that smoke marijuana, lets get high marijuana people who aren’t using it for medical affects at all, but really want to promote legalization of marijuana just to get loaded and just get high and the medical marijuana advocates have told me those are, that’s their real enemy. It’s not the federal government, state government and Narcs, it’s really those pro-legal marijuana advocates and that seems to be the thing happening in Los Angeles. Los Angeles just astoundingly more than any other place in the nation has just sprung up with the medical marijuana issue, tremendous amounts of marijuana outlets, for sale marijuana and it looks like they’re even advocating for a for sale for profits. I think part of California stipulation had to be, had to be non-profit. You know you had to be almost non-cash basis of providing medical marijuana. But in LA, you’ve got, by some accounts, conservative counts, eight hundred marijuana outlets now and by other accounts, a thousand marijuana outlets for serving a much greater number than is projected being the number of patients who need access, need medical marijuana and so clearly there is some diversion from medical marijuana to legalize marijuana and provide marijuana and provide sales for it. Maybe they’re ahead of their time, because Governor Schwarzenegger, a little while back was proposing that marijuana be legalized and taxed so that California can make a lot of tax revenue on it. But because of the great outlets of marijuana in Los Angeles and greater than the medical need, there’s a backlash or reaction from the city and the county and a lot of jockeying and positioning, that’s saying that they recognize this is nothing more than just abusing marijuana. So what they’re going to do is they’re going to be cracking down on a lot of the outlets from the city and county jurisdiction point of view and warning all these marijuana advocates that you’ve got, outlets rather, that you’ve got to toe the line, you’ve got to, its got to be medical marijuana — if its not, we’re going to prosecute you to full letter of the law and we’re going to crack down on you from a local level. We’re not worried about the federal government and what they say, we’re going to crack down on you from our local level. So that’s an interesting reaction too.

CNS: Well, yeah that’s definitely something’s that going to have to be looked into. The wording in the justice departments statement is that they’re not going to pursue federal actions, or they’re telling their federal attorneys not to pursue actions where the individual or the person that’s supplying to the individual are in clear and unambiguous compliance with the existing state laws.

Darryl: The other thing that I worry about in terms of medical marijuana and maybe levelization of marijuana, or even legalization with taxation, is what are we going to do about driving under the influence. Some of the early research is showing that even small levels of marijuana impair abilities to drive and if we have an analogy to legalization of alcohol we definitely had a legal limit to drive, but I’m not sure if that’s ever been stated for marijuana. I know it could be tested in salvia and other things to see if you were at that legal limit but where are we going to be with DUI laws and marijuana, with marijuana and I think that has to be looked at because marijuana is I think, a hazard for somebody operating a automobile or even other hazardous machinery.

CNS: Yeah, especially if you’re not used to it. I read something recently about it being actually not as dangerous as alcohol but perhaps troublesome in a different kind of way in, in this article it mentioned the drivers being extraordinarily cautious in driving you know, too slow just because their mind was working on other things. So I, I think that’s a good point that you have there and I’m not sure how we, how we codify it, codify it.

Darryl: Right, I think the early research, Reese Jones and others at UC show that very, even when their people were given low doses of marijuana where they felt that they didn’t have any effects from it, they didn’t feel anything, that their reaction time was slower, marijuana does slow time down. I mean anybody who smokes it, their reaction becomes slower and they do things slower. So that itself can be hazardous, but there’s also depth perception is impaired to quite a degree and the ability to perform tasks which require multiple operations and driving might be considered that way. Certainly an airline pilot would be considered that way and we don’t, we have to consider how the marijuana laws are going to affect them. But in order to do something that’s going to take multiple actions and multiple thought process, I often use the analogy of programming a VCR so you get a new VCR or DVD and you want to record something you know for later on and show and you’ve got to go through these multiple buttons and press this — try smoking a joint and do that and I guarantee you, you start laughing instead of finishing. So, so we do have some concerns about operating vehicles while you’re under the influence. Stereos, you know, just the stereos and your music choices and capacities while driving have just exploded and you know its hard enough just driving with out being under the influence or not even using the cell phone, to find the right buttons to get the right stations you want, just try that when you’re distracted and I think you’ve got a big problem.

CNS: Or, or maybe you’re trying to figure out your GPS system, to figure out where you are. Yeah, all kinds of complications that show up, without the additional complication of psychoactive drugs. Anyway this, this topic will certainly go on and on and on and we’ll have more discussions about it. If anyone out there in radio podcast land has any comments or questions we would definitely like to hear them. We can respond to them if possible in a future program. Drop by our website which is cnsproductions.com and drop us an email from that point. Darryl thank you as always and we’ll talk to you soon.

Darryl: Hey great talking to you, Howard.

CNS: That wraps our pod for today. Thanks for visiting the CNS pod cast. Please check back soon for the next in the series and visit our website www.cnsproductions.com.

 
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